Monday, April 14, 2008


I couldn't agree more. I heard Jesse Ventura say that this option should be added to the Presidential Election Ballots and if it was he knows what most people would mark in their most honest moment. NONE OF THE ABOVE.

But do you really think people would be that courageous or would they continue to vote for someone out of the continuous stream of bad choices that continue to be offered?


Grateful Girl said...

I'm with you Kent. I think people may be courageous enough this election.

I saw Jesse last night on Colbert Report. Aside from his bad hair-do, I saw his perspective! This is the first election in all my days that I more than likely will not vote in good conscious.

Good post!

Kent said...

Trish, my take on the whole of politics and what nations are up to just doesn't register as much for me anymore. I just don't put any trust in it. Politicians and all the supporting cast do what they think is best for themselves and are so out of touch with the average folks and their day to day lives.

But since I do care about people and believe that political decisions in so may ways can be very destructive to people, if there were a time that good choices where being offered, I would more than likey cast a vote.

But today seems to not be that day.

Jennifer said...

I'd check it, but then I would also have a sinking feeling as I did. People do need structure, but it's too bad that we aren't internally free enough to be able to govern ourselves.

I'm not sure which is more true; the politicians are out of touch with the population or the population is just out of touch with itself. John Adams pointed out that the only way a Republic can work is if the population is a Christian one...because the Christian's idea of government is to be governed first by God and then by ourselves and then not to use that government to control and oppress others. It seems that if the population really wanted particular things to change, they wouldn't be waiting for the politicians to do it, they would be doing it themselves and allow the government to govern instead of babysit.

Oh, what's this? A soapbox...excuse me. I'll step aside now. :)

Kent said...

"People do need structure,"

And my initial response would be..."So we have been led the believe."

Societies are always control structures that use less nasty or more nasty means to control...neither one seems to be a good choice.

Jennifer said...

I completely agree that neither is a good choice, but it seems that when people don't know God, or respond to him, they are desiring to be controlled by something.

I don't believe that people innately need structure, but like you said...they have come to believe that they do and until something breaks that spell, they do need it. I think that's why there are so many hymns about God being our anchor and our rock. We need a center from which to be and without God in that place we find other things to replace

I hope I didn't come across as disagreeing, my point was only that something must be at the center of US, and if it isn't God, we will make something else to take His place.

So...I'm not saying people actually need systems, but that people like systems in the absence of internal freedom. Like the tests with no fences. In sociological testing, researchers placed children in the middle of a field with no fences and told them to go wherever they wanted. The tended to stay clumped in the middle because there were no boundaries.

Maybe a better way to say all this is that people need boundaries and many find comfort in systems because they provide the boundaries...not realizing that Christ offers boundless freedom when our heart is responding to Him. ???

Kent said...

Jennifer, I'm just always trying to think beyond the boundries that have been set in my mind by cultural shaping (religious and social)

It's tough to do, even when we are serious about attempting to do it. It's like the kids in the field can be used by some to say "See, we told you. This is just how people are, just accept it."

I would say: "See, I told you. People are stuck in a mindset that keeps them enslaved to these prisons of the mind that aren't real."

Jennifer said...

I see what you're saying, but do you think we do have a need for God in the center of our being? Do you think it's possible that the insecurity we feel as people is just because we think we are separated from God, or do you think the insecurity itself is not real??

Kent said...

i think the insecurity is real but I think it is so because we don't trust. We don't know our true identity in Christ and we don't know the true character of God. I think when one begins to KNOW, all these other things we grab hold of will be seen for what they truely are.

What is so strange for me and so wild, is for the first time in my life over the past couple years these things somehow moved from concepts to a place of being real and as that has happened, things that I had fought for for so long to see happen to no avail, have just happened.

I have no idea of the sequence of it all, but what I remember is that I just got sick of the game the world and the religious sub-culture had taught me to play and jumped from what I had spent my life doing up to that point into the life I had said I believed in yet really didn't fully live like I believed. That was my game.

Grateful Girl said...

Good conversation guys. Good questions. Good answers.

I am stuck in the middle of the field Jenn discribed and I am exploring every possibility because I now believe I can and that it's ok! And that God actually intended for us to explore. WE put ourselves in boxes. We also put God in a box and expect him to perform the way we think he should.

Oh no, it really isn't like that! Hurray! We are FREE to explore.

As a society we do need some type of government. You know, to fix the roads and to keep people safe and provide education. THAT'S IT. If and when it becomes more than that, it's about money, control and corruption. Even the best governments have historically gone bad... Why? CONTROL.POWER. Not governing by any means.

Kent, I totally agree with your final statement in your last comment that on the outside it appeared we were living the ulitmate Christian life! But believe me, inside we were wondering what the heck we were doing. We so wanted to LIVE what we said we believed but found total contradiction and could not find a way inside the IC to LIVE. Being a free Christian has given us PERMISSION and FREEDOM to run through that beautiful field and explore. With no government whatsoever...

Rant over.. These things are important to discuss. Thank you for your honesty...

Kent said...

I want to let everyone know that my views on politics and how I am choosing to participate in them (or not) is a personal thing. I think God can lead people to get involved directly with politics...even run for office if he so wills. What I have found interesting is that so many people participate and hate what they are getting, yet continue to do it because they have been led to believe they must to be a good citizen.

For me, this kind of participation is what is puzzling when it comes to those who are desiring to follow Jesus...not that they ARE participating but it is in the WHY they are participating or placing their trust in it.

To me it's just another manipulation of people's fear and divides and sets us against others.