It all feels like such a tricky thing.Even though I have been accused of being many things over the past few days...."Offspring of Satan"...."Relativist"...."and someone who writes in a way that can't be understood in any language"... I still find the Spirit leading me to live in the questions more so than living in extreme confidence thinking I have found the answers. I'm more and more at peace everyday with the uncertainty and not needing an answer for everything because I'm learning to place all my trust in the One who is the answer and who loves me perfectly and accepts us and never stops whispering...."Do not be afraid"
Can real humility and the extreme confidence that we see so often coming from the Christian community exist together in a individual?
And here is an observation. I hear a lot of the language of extreme confidence but I'm hard pressed to find many that seem to exhibit much peace...and compassion...and grace...and mercy in their lives. Which for myself leaves me to believe humility and extreme confidence are like oil and water. Humilty speaks to me of a proper confidence because I might just be wrong and even if I happen to be right it doesn't make me superior to anyone. It keeps me from trusting in my own ability and attempting to force it on others.
Can real humility and the extreme confidence that we see so often coming from the Christian community exist together in a individual?
And here is an observation. I hear a lot of the language of extreme confidence but I'm hard pressed to find many that seem to exhibit much peace...and compassion...and grace...and mercy in their lives. Which for myself leaves me to believe humility and extreme confidence are like oil and water. Humilty speaks to me of a proper confidence because I might just be wrong and even if I happen to be right it doesn't make me superior to anyone. It keeps me from trusting in my own ability and attempting to force it on others.
While thinking about this over the weekend it brought to mind a book that wrestles with these very things.
Here are some quotes from Lesslie Newbigin's book Proper Confidence.
“But we are now entering a postmodern period, a time in which the seemingly assured assumptions we have inherited from the Enlightenment are being deconstructed.”
“Secondly, the phrase “until that day” reminds us that this is not a claim to possess final truth but to be on the way that leads us to the fullness of truth.”
“It will mean that my understanding of the truth must be constantly open to revision and correction, but — and this is the crucial point — only and always within the irreversible commitment to Jesus Christ.
“Hold to Christ, and for the rest be totally uncommitted.”
“If we are to make contact with reality, we must have the courage to make statements that can be doubted. There can be no knowing of reality without the courage to affirm what can be doubted and to act on that affirmation.”
“”Your kingdom come,” What are we, as Christians, asking for when we so pray?”
“I am referring to a kind of fundamentalism which seeks to affirm the factual, objective truth of every statement in the Bible and which thinks that if any single factual error were to be admitted, biblical authority would collapse.”
“It is less important to ask a Christian what he or she believes about the Bible than it is to inquire what he or she does with it.”
“If we allow the Bible to be that which we attend to above all else, we will be saved from two dangers: The first is the danger of the closed mind. The Bible leaves an enormous space open for exploration. …The second is the danger of the mind open at both ends, the mind which is prepared to entertain anything but has a firm hold of nothing.”
Here are some quotes from Lesslie Newbigin's book Proper Confidence.
“But we are now entering a postmodern period, a time in which the seemingly assured assumptions we have inherited from the Enlightenment are being deconstructed.”
“Secondly, the phrase “until that day” reminds us that this is not a claim to possess final truth but to be on the way that leads us to the fullness of truth.”
“It will mean that my understanding of the truth must be constantly open to revision and correction, but — and this is the crucial point — only and always within the irreversible commitment to Jesus Christ.
“Hold to Christ, and for the rest be totally uncommitted.”
“If we are to make contact with reality, we must have the courage to make statements that can be doubted. There can be no knowing of reality without the courage to affirm what can be doubted and to act on that affirmation.”
“”Your kingdom come,” What are we, as Christians, asking for when we so pray?”
“I am referring to a kind of fundamentalism which seeks to affirm the factual, objective truth of every statement in the Bible and which thinks that if any single factual error were to be admitted, biblical authority would collapse.”
“It is less important to ask a Christian what he or she believes about the Bible than it is to inquire what he or she does with it.”
“If we allow the Bible to be that which we attend to above all else, we will be saved from two dangers: The first is the danger of the closed mind. The Bible leaves an enormous space open for exploration. …The second is the danger of the mind open at both ends, the mind which is prepared to entertain anything but has a firm hold of nothing.”
13 comments:
Well of course here is more relativistic rubbish from the spawn of Satan :)
Sigh, Kent. We deserve to be hated, Kentster. Because we suck, patently. Christians suck. We really really really suck arse.
I'm sorry about the flame-throwers. People on forums say things they would never say if they were sitting on a couch across from you. I guess it is the flipside of the wonder of the internet. Still, it's a bummer, huh.
I agree, humility and extreme confidence cannot fit together unless, like Paul, all you boast in is the cross.
Arrogant superior "I'm gonna straighten you out" Christianity really does suck. And the sad thing is the people that applies to can't even see that it applies to them.
One of the accusations came from a regular participant and he and I had a beneficial conversation despite the accusation. I've had some good conversations with him this past year. One of the others had to be banned because he was so obnoxious and had used other names for a few other people. Sue, if you remember the "offspring" comment was directed at me and you. You are a great traveling partner ;) The other one I think was just a "drive by" they popped in, tried to offend me, and haven't been back since.
And Christians think the atheists have no reason to feel the way they feel about Christians. Hmmm.....
Yes, well, I just left a comment about that, about what a horrendously unsubmitted beast I am.
But you know what? I get annoyed at myself for responding at all. What is the point? It is a bottomless pit. I am not anywhere near as defensive and aggro as I used to be (which God only knows how that's happened because I'm too unsubmitted for him to be able to do anything with me ;) and so I don't get annoyed the way I used to. But it irritates me enough, and i get impulsive enough, to slap a comment back in reply and I really wish I would grow up and stop doing that sort of thing, haha :)
And of course, the ultimate reason why I get irritated is because I get irritated at MYSELF. Because I have been plenty of times in positions where I could have been the person on the other end, who needed to shore up my position because ... well, because the way I was seeing things didn't give me much to stand on, you know? And these days it's just not anything like that anymore, and yet still I respond to that sort of thing.
Much better to turn to the side and do it differently, but I guess none of us are quite perfect as of yet :)
Hey Kent, sorry to hear that you got flamed. Kind of sucky that they do it, and think that they are doing the right thing. Speaking of athiests I sort of consider myself an athiest to that kind of Christianity now, and have been seeing a better way through guys like you. Have a great day, Cheers.
Jon
Sue, you might not see it all that well right now (but I think you really do) but you are perfectly and beautifully in process.
Jon, I agree. I'm an atheist to those types also because if they are a reflection of the god they serve....I don't think I want to have anything to do with it.
And I really have to say that their judgements don't effect me....and like I said on the forum...they are the ones that have to live with such judgements. I really feel sorry for them. Trying to please the god they live with has got to be a heavy burden to carry around all the time. Oh yea, it is, I did it for many years.
Thanks, Kent. Yes, I feel like I am coming along nicely. A bit more firing here and there, and I should be just about finished, huh????
What???? NO??????? Damn!!!!! :D
I have come across several posts on my travels over the past few weeks where Christians are identifying with atheists. It's funny :) I was listening to a Free Believers podcast a few days ago (I can't remember which one, unfortunately) and Darin Hufford was talking about a conversation he had with a guy who later renounced his christianity and became an atheist. He was saying how amazingly free he felt now of all of that condemnation and gult and dread and rule keeping and all that other crap. Just this joy of living he felt now. And Darin was saying that this was exactly how he was feeling now in God that he'd come out from under all the obligation that passes itself off as a relationship with God. It just struck me as funny how it can be that I feel so often that I have more in common with atheists, Buddhists and New Agers than I do with many Christians.
Have you seen this before Sue?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CmJbUgTSsrw
Haha. And here we find ourselves at the same point again. Trippy :)
Love and grace and mercy and compassion and forgiveness...........WIN everyday.
Sometimes it just takes us a little while to get on that train.
Kent,
Ah...great post. Humility, something I most certainly desire my character to be more filled with. Good, good stuff. None of us "know-it-all." Including me. If we did, we would be God! Good reminder to me...to us all.
Sue, thanks for citing that video!
Blessings,
~Amy :)
Hey Amy. It was Kent who cited it, actually (he's always coming up with good things to watch on YouTube for our spiritual or gardenish edification :)
Isn't it funny how we need reminding that we don't know everything over and over again? I find that a fascinating part of our humanity, LOL
Sue,
That reminds me of the Donald Miller book Blue Like Jazz where he describes how he became an atheist to the God he grew up with. I can identify with you on liking Pagan's a whole lot more than Christians these days. Perhaps there is more reality in those people.
Jon
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